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Should the Great Schism of 1054 be taken to be 1204 (or 1182) instead?

Should the Great Schism of 1054 be taken to be 1204 (or 1182) instead?



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It seems that 1054 wasn't such a big deal: forty years later Pope Urban and Emperor Alexios were on such good terms that a crusade was initiated to save Constantinople and the Holy Lands; even in 1136 Pope Innocent II called upon Emperors Comnenus and Lothair to unite against Roger of Sicily.

This doesn't seem much of a schism. Only after the Massacre of the Latins and even more so the sack of Constantinople that the two sides broke terms completely and irreversible bitterness entered the social psyche.

The Pope and Patriarch were already disagreeing on points of religion from Carolingian times, and 1054 was simply the latest mutual excommunication before the fourth crusade.

Is this a correct assessment?


Yes, your assessment is broadly correct but, to be fair, the Great Schism of 1054 was a very real break between the Greek eastern and Latin western churches. The split was not only along doctrinal and theological lines, but also along linguistic, political, and geographical lines. This fundamental breach has never been healed

However, this did not mean that the two sides did not have any shared interests, or that they couldn't work together against common enemies. As you say, examples of this are relatively easy to find. You mention a couple of instances of this medieval realpolitik in the question: the early Crusades to "rescue" the Holy Lands and the united actions by Emperors Comnenus and Lothair against Roger II of Sicily.

Now, you are absolutely right that the Massacre of the Latins in Constantinople in 1182, and the Sack of Constantinople by the Fourth Crusade in 1204 effectively permanently sealed the breach and made reconciliation between the two sides virtually impossible. However, that doesn't change the fact that the fundamental breach had occurred in 1054.


The Great Schism of 1054 was an "official" announcement of something that had been going on for centuries: that the Latin and Orthodox churches had been "growing apart" in doctrine, language, practices, etc. driven in large part by local politics. What happened in that year was the Rome forbade churches in Italy from following certain "eastern" practices, and Constantinople likewise forbade churches in Asia Minor from following "Latin" practices. The result was a religious "divorce" because the two parties could no longer "cohabit."

That was a "big deal," theologically even if it didn't seem like it from a political perspective forty years later, when the two sides "got together" to fight the common Saracen enemy and start the crusades. That would have been like a couple seeking an "amicable" divorce and agreeing to work together to sell their house to maximize value for both parties.

The later, bloodier events in 1182 and 1204 made the "divorce" turn ugly, and more like a "contested," rather than an amicable divorce, and also removed all hope of reconciliation. But that doesn't change the fact that the "divorce proceedings," read "schism," began in 1054.


The Great Schism of 1054 was a very big deal, particularly with regard to major disagreements in Church Doctrine and institutional power.

The main disagreement which led to a "Schism" between the Roman rite and Eastern rite Churches, was the concept of the Trinity. If my memory is correct, the Roman Catholic Church's position was (and is), that the Holy Spirit emanated from "the Father and Son", whereas in the Eastern Church, the Holy Spirit emanated from only "the Father". (One may want to check Wikipedia for further specification. Thomas Aquinas wrote on the Trinity in his "Summa Theologica", though I don't know if he provided any detailed discussion on The Great Schism of 1054 and the Eastern rite Church).

There were many other differences which distinguished and continue to distinguish the Roman rite and Eastern rite Churches which culminated with The Great Schism. The range of theological and institutional differences included (and still include):

  1. The appropriate way of crossing one's self.

  2. The displaying of statues and three dimensional artworks in the Roman Church versus the displaying of icons (and forbidding the display of statues and three dimensional artworks) in the Eastern Church.

  3. The use of the Latin language in the Roman rite Church versus the use of Greek language in the Eastern rite Church-(as well as allowing other Eastern rite Churches to use their own language during Church services, also known as the autocephalic system).

  4. The different interpretations of "Apostolic succession", (as well as the veneration of certain Saints).

In the Roman rite Church, Saint Peter was and is still viewed, as the true heir to Jesus Christ, whereas in the Eastern rite Church, Saint Andrew was and is still viewed, as the true heir to Jesus Christ-(incidentally, both Saints Andrew and Peter were brothers). Peter, was "martyred" in Rome, whereas his brother Andrew, was "martyred" in Greece. Apparently, the geographical location of these two "martyred" Saints reinforced-(and still reinforces), the primacy of each of these Churches' self-identifying lines of "Apostolic succession".

While there were up and down relations between Papal Rome and Constantinople since The Great Schism, as well as the growing Venetian and Genoese presence within many parts of Greece during the late Middle Ages and a Greek expat community, largely from Constantinople, who resettled in Venice and the Veneto during Ottoman imperial expansion towards the West, the Theological differences between the Roman Christian West and the Greek Christian East were (and are still), quite significant; and much of that is directly attributable to the Great Schism of 1054.


𠇎rm…” Robert blushed, and then swiftly waved his hands. “I’m the president of the Food Association now, so I’m afraid I cannot follow you around any time soon.”

“It’s fine. I’ll keep the wok for you. You can look for me anytime once you sort the things out.” Harris waved his hands nonchalantly, and reached out to pat the black wok on Chapman’s back with a smile. �ter you carry this black wok, we will be the 𠆋lack Wok Gang’… Ptui, a part of the ‘Wandering Chefs’.”

“This is the last time,” Jeffree said to Harris flatly. Although he was still pulling a long face, he already looked much warmer than usual.

“How could you say that? I think you can still live for a few more years,” Harris seriously commented after studying Jeffree intently.

Jeffree raised his brow slightly, but there was mirth in his eyes as he pointed at Harris. “I want to eat dry grilled fish today, or else I will smash your wok.”

“Your request is a little overboard, man. I’ll try my best to satisfy you,” Harris timidly said.

“Harris, where are the books you said you’ve brought for the children?” Novan asked Harris smilingly.

“They’re all in the carriage. I bought them all on my travels. There’re so many books that I almost have to sleep with my back touching the ceiling. Quick, remove all of them,” Harris said annoyedly.

“Sure. I’ll get all of them later.” Novan smiled.

Harris got close to Novan, and whispered, 𠇍on’t take those wrapped books under my pillow by mistake.”

“You.” Novan gave him a disdainful look, but he still nodded discreetly.

Mag turned around, and instructed Miya, “Let’s get the seats for the judges.”

The restaurant’s door opened, and five sets of tables and chairs were quickly set up in front of the restaurant.

Harris turned around, and smilingly asked Mag, “Young friend, I took the initiative to invite these people. What do you think about them?”

Scheer was looking at Mag with amusement and interest in her gaze.

“I have no objections. It’s my honor that these judges could come for our duel. Please take your seats.” Mag was smiling, but in fact, he was secretly swearing in his heart.

You have already f*cking invited the most impressive big bosses in Chaos City, so what objections can I have?

Where am I going to find big bosses of that level?

“That’s good. I was still worried that you might think that they’re not grand enough.” Harris heaved a sigh of relief.

The Invincible God of Cookery’s connections are indeed impressive. One thought popped in everyone’s mind at the same time. After all, no ordinary person in Chaos City could be so chummy with those judges.

All the judges went to take their seats, and the ambiance was already fired up by the big-shot judges.

It was very rare to see the five of them together.

𠇋oss Mag, I look forward to your performance today.” Scheer smiled as she walked past Mag.

“Thank you.” Mag nodded slightly.

𠇋oss Mag, you will be Chaos City’s hero if you defeat him,” Michael reminded him with anticipation when he walked by.

“Go for it, Boss Mag.” Robert raised his fist as he offered words of encouragement.

Jeffree looked at Mag thoughtfully, but he simply walked over without saying anything.

“Mr. Mag, you have to make Chaos City proud.” Novan smiled.

Mag already felt a little pressured. Although he wasn’t sure how Harris’ culinary skills were, deducing from Michael and the other judges’ behavior, his reputation wasn’t gained by boasting.

Of course, his pressure didn’t come from others’ expectations, but instead it came from the fact that perhaps he would have to carry that ugly black wok, follow them as a vagabond, and call that mister his master.

The judges took their seats, and Harris also went to the center. He suddenly got a bamboo container with dozens of bamboo sticks out from nowhere and waved at Mag. “Young friend, should we decide on the duel’s format by drawing lots?”

Harris began to look increasingly like a psychic to Mag. What kind of chef would bring a container of divination sticks with him everywhere? He even decided the duel’s format by drawing lots?

“Seems like the rumor is true. Master Harris really brings a container of divination sticks along with him everywhere he goes.” Vanessa looked at the container of divination sticks in Harris’ hands with amazement. 𠇊pparently, he could even read others’ fortune with it.”

“I wonder if he is accurate in his reading?” Abraham asked.

“I heard he’s rather accurate. You simply have to listen to his words in reverse. Apparently, he had tried to predict a young lady’s love life, and he said that she wouldn’t have any lovers ever. In the end, she met the man she loved the very next day, and even married him.”

“Now I think I know why all his disciples carry a black wok with them.” Abraham gained a new understanding.

“How should we draw the lots?” Mag walked down the stairs and approached Harris. He looked at the different types of bamboo lots that were carved with numbers and words: cutting skills, soups, grilling… They weren’t restricted to types of dishes, and covered almost all the skills that a chef should possess.

“There are all kinds of culinary skills in my bamboo container. To be fair, if you have anything that you’re not good in, I can remove them first before we each draw a lot for our duel item. Then the judges will draw a lot for us as a duel item too.

“There will be three rounds of duels, and whoever can win two of them will be the victor of this culinary duel,” Harris smilingly said.

Mag was thoughtful. This method of choosing the duel item was indeed very creative. He reached out to take the bamboo container from Harris and remove dozens of bizarre items like balancing a big wok on the head, shattering a cutting board on the chest, etc. Then, he nodded. “Let’s draw from it now.”

“You’re only taking those few out?” Harris looked at the dozens of bamboo sticks that Mag was holding with astonishment. Some of the chefs that he had met before even left only three sticks in the container, so he was rather amazed that Mag had only removed 10-odd of them.

“The rest are all the basic skills of a chef and the usual dishes, so why should I remove them?” Mag asked instead.

“Young friend, you’re indeed very interesting. Then, I will start first.” Harris held the container with both hands, and began to shake it piously.

The audience’s gazes were also focused on the bamboo container in his hands. This was the first time that they had seen such an innovative way to decide the duel methods.

A bamboo stick fell out of the container, and landed on the ground.

“Here it goes.” Harris bent over to pick it up. After taking a look at it, he lifted it over his head, and said, “The first item is cutting skills!”

𠇌utting skills.” Mag was thoughtful. After training in the test field for the God of Cookery for so long, he was rather confident about his cutting skills. He took the bamboo container, and gave it a casual shake. A stick fell out, and he caught it in midair. He turned it over to have a look, and then he, too, raised it above his head, and declared, 𠇌old dish.”

Ha, it seemed like it was time to debut the “sliced beef and ox tongue in chili sauce”.

“Then, the second item will be a cold dish.” Harris took the bamboo container back, and walked to the judging panel. He placed the bamboo container in front of Scheer, and smilingly said, “You will decide on the third item then.”

𠇊lright.” Scheer picked up the bamboo container, and gave it a few hard shakes. A bamboo stick flew out and landed on the table.

Scheer picked the stick up, glanced at it, and loudly declared, “Soup!”


Should the Great Schism of 1054 be taken to be 1204 (or 1182) instead? - History

“18-year-old maiden’s dress” vs “husband and wife lung slice”!

This didn’t look like an orthodox culinary duel at all, right?

However, all this was taking place right at Mamy Restaurant’s entrance.

“‘Husband and wife lung slice’? Could this be the new dish that Boss Mag is experimenting with recently? This dish isn’t found on the menu, right?”

“There’s no doubt that it is the latest dish that Boss Mag is experimenting on. I wonder if his experiment was successful? And why didn’t he release the dish if it was successful?”

“Boss Mag always maintains the freshness of his ingredients, but would it be too cruel to extract the lungs on the spot right now?”

Mamy Restaurant’s regulars showed a great interest in Mag’s new dish. After all, Mag had always given them many surprises, so they hoped they could see an unusual dish today too.

“When did Boss try out new items behind our back again?” Yabemiya murmured.

“He has never tried them out in front of us before,” Elizabeth calmly replied.

“I agree with that. I think Boss has come up with the idea in his brain completely, and he naturally comes up with a new item after some time.” Firis nodded in agreement. She, too, had never seen Mag experimenting with new products in the kitchen before, yet he was able to release excellent new products at a very good speed. What was amazing was that he was able to ensure the new products’ great taste.

“How long would my young friend need to make this cold dish?” Harris asked Mag.

Mag pondered, and then answered, “31 minutes.”

“Seems like it’s a very complicated cold dish,” Harris thoughtfully said before he nodded. “Alright. In this case, we will set the time limit for the second round at 33 minutes.”

“My soup needs to simmer for almost an hour. If we conduct the duel in sequence, it will affect my restaurant’s lunch operation. Therefore, I plan to cook the soup simultaneously while I make the cold dish. I wonder if that’s alright with you?” Mag asked Harris.

“Seems like you are very confident that you’re able to win the cold dish duel, my young friend?” Harris chuckled. “Since that’s the case, I agree that you can make two dishes simultaneously. My soup will also need to simmer for one hour, so I will also be making my soup together with you at the same time.”

“Alright.” Mag nodded. He liked straightforward people.

“So, are they going to make two dishes simultaneously?”

The audience were all stunned by Mag and Harris’ simple and rough decision. However, the two dishes would take a different amount of time to finish, so the time to present them was naturally different too. Hence, the sequence wasn’t jumbled up at all.

“If Master Harris wins the second round, will the duel be considered as over by then?”

“Boss Mag isn’t someone who admits his defeat easily. If he hadn’t been 100% confident, he wouldn’t have said that.”

“It isn’t easy for him now after losing one round out of the three.”

The audience were talking softly among themselves. They were very nervous and excited about this competition’s trend.

“Senior, will Master be alright?” a young man carrying a black wok asked the senior next to him softly.

“I’ve wandered with Master for over 10-odd years, and met about 1000 chefs. Master has defeated all of them, so there’s nothing to worry about here,” that senior calmly said while digging his nose. He wasn’t concerned about such a scene and such a young chef at all.

Many of the chefs who had lost to his master were old chefs who had spent their entire lives in the kitchen, and had numerous honors and titles. However, they could only bow and accept their defeat in front of their master.

“18-year-old maiden’s dress” was one of his master’s best cold dishes. He had once defeated the goblins’ king of the cold dish with it before.

Since their master had decided to utilize this dish, that meant today’s duel was going to end right here.

That young man appeared to be much relieved when he heard that. He secretly sized up all the beautiful ladies standing at the restaurant’s entrance. He rarely saw such beautiful maidens in his travels, so even a few sneaky glances could make him blush.

Chapman came between the two cooks with a huge clock, and loudly declared, “The 33-minute countdown starts right now!”

As soon as Chapman said that, Mag and Harris began to move at the same time.

Harris took out all kinds of ingredients from the basket calmly. They were all vegetarian foods. He washed them in a wooden basin with clear water. His every step was slow, gentle, and so extremely detailed that he even washed the gaps between the leaves two, three times.

However, on the other end, Mag’s actions were much faster. He washed the beef, ox tongue, ox heart, ox scalp, and tripe one by one before lighting up the stove and setting up a pressure cooker. He placed all the ingredients for the brine and condiments in sequence, and boiled them with a high heat. Then, he simmered them with a medium heat.

Making “sliced beef and ox tongue in chili sauce” was a complicated affair. The marination needed a lot of time. Because of the time-constraint, Mag had to utilize the pressure cooker in order to make the marinate seep through the beef and beef offal quickly, and to achieve the effect of tender-but-not-mushy.

As the meat cooked in the cooker, Mag set up a Shaoxing wine urn on the stove, and began to place all kinds of precious seafood and ingredients into it. He then poured in the stock, sealed the urn, and let it simmer.

”Buddha jumps over the wall” was the soup that Mag chose. As a top soup, it had already defeated one opponent, and today would be its second time being pitted against another soup.

Of course, whether it would get the chance to enter the stage would depend on the performance of “sliced beef and ox tongue in chili sauce”.

The marination was very crucial for the “sliced beef and ox tongue in chili sauce”. Tossing it cold would even give it its soul.

Mag heated up the wok, poured in the oil, and scattered a big bunch of chaotian pepper in. He then added in the Sichuan pepper, star anise, galanga, spring onions, garlic, ginger, and sugar, and simmered them with low heat. A pot full of aromatic spicy red oil began to release a dazzling aroma.

He fried the sesame seeds, and smashed the peanuts into bits. After setting all the ingredients nicely at the side, Mag kept his knife, and waited for the marination to be done.

Meanwhile, on the other side, Harris was cutting his ingredients delicately with his “Saury”. All the colorful ingredients were cut into different shapes and sizes. Some of the vegetables were quickly scalded in the pot of hot water before they were plated carefully on the big plate, while others were scattered on the plate directly to become a corner of the skirt.

The entire cooking process was just like painting. The big white plate was the canvas, all the ingredients were the paint, and he was expressing himself to his heart’s content.

Perhaps that is the so-called tempo of cooking? Mag was attracted by Harris’ state of transcendence just by flicking a glance at him. That was a very amazing state, and would gradually calm the person watching him down.

Most of the customers’ gazes were attracted by Harris. It was rare to see such a visually entertaining style of cooking.

Ding! The pressure cooker chimed, and Mag retrieved his gaze. He turned off the fire, and waited for three minutes before placing the pressure cooker into the freezer directly. The high pressure was quickly relieved.

Mag removed the pressure cooker, and gently exhaled before uncovering the pot.

The rich aroma of the marinate slowly blossomed, and spread out with the hot air instantly.


Watch the video: Το σχίσμα στην Ορθοδοξία, Αρχιμ Σάββα Ἁγιορείτου 16-08-2020 Απόσπασμα (August 2022).